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Coffey: Mall ‘not violent’

Towne Center is safe despite e-mail, sheriff says

Maryland Independent, by BETHANY RODGERS

[...]
“The mall’s got an image problem,” said Coffey (D). “It’s not a violent place to shop. … I wouldn’t let my family go there if there was some danger.”
[...]
Coffey added that he hopes people protect themselves from being victimized by sticking to well-lit locations and walking in groups. He said people should avoid walking to the backs and sides of buildings and keep their keys in hand while going to their cars.

“All we need is to be vigilant and at all times to remember that the scum of the earth is among us,” he said.

Posted by: Sammy on 03/05/10 at 01:19 PM

Page 1 of 1 pages

1. · Wow - well great - we can all go home now. No violence at the mall? What mall is HE going to?

Comment by bishop on 03/05/10 at 05:10 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
2. · I really think we need to put things in perspective. I think Sheriff Coffey is trying to tell the citizens of our county that the mall has a reputation for violent activity it it may not necessarily deserve. Sure the mall has it’s fair share of criminal activity, just like the other “nicer malls” in our region and around the country. Recently there have been kidnappings at Tyson’s Corner Mall, a shooting inside the Annapolis Mall and other violent crimes at Pentagon City Mall. Sure we have thugs at our mall. We also have a lot of upstanding citizens who shop there. I’m one of them. I watch my back everywhere and I am also looking at my surroundings (not just at the mall, but everywhere) You never know when or where you could be a victim of a crime. I’m sure the “scum of the earth” would love it if we just ran scared. Yes we have had some violent acts at the mall. I’ll bet we will have many more. When you have thousands of people in one place, there are going to be some who look for any opportunity to victimize others. It appears that most of the violent act at the mall and surrounding area are kids victimizing other kids. In recent years the definition of robbery in Maryland has changed. What would have been considered a theft in years past is now called robbery. The mere threat of violence such as “give me money or I’m gonna punch you” is considered a robbery. Is our mall safe? Yes. The odds of you being victimized at the mall are the same odds as any other mall to include the “nicer malls”. I have included a copy of links about crime at other malls in our region and across the nation.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/archives/156403.asp

http://www.examiner.com/x-34214-Hartford-Religion--Culture-Examiner~y2010m2d6-Mall-Violence

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/389116_southcenter24.html

http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/11/news/companies/retail_crime/index.htm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15012092/

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/article.asp?article=323055&paper=68&cat=104

http://www.specialtyretail.com/news/2009/03/shoplifting_crimes_spike

Comment by Bill Jones on 03/05/10 at 06:51 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
3. · Bill -

While I appreciate your well thought, detailed opinion, I can't help but feel you are missing the point. This IS NOT Alexandria, Tysons, Annapolis, or any other major city in Maryland or Virginia. This is Charles County, MD. Our mall has an alarming amount of crime for such an area and a serious quality of life issue. While it is not a crime to be faced with hundreds of thugs and screaming teenagers on any given evening, it is nonetheless inappropriate. Shoppers are molested (figuratively) each time they dare show up at the St. Charles Town Center. The crime stats may not accurately reflect the issue, but that fact doesn't escape the citizens of this county who shop there. In the same statement where Coffey declares - MALL NOT VIOLENT - he talks of arrests in the two back-to-back robberies which occurred there. Now, I know semantically it is not untrue that these incidents did not occur "in the mall". The face they occurred at the movie theater and the McDonalds on Mall Circle don't mean diddly. Mall Circle, and the businesses there, are the mall. The mall, and the surrounding area, IS violent and needs to be handled.

I am aware of the definition of robbery and how the charge can be levied. It is written to allow the threat of force, which a normal person may perceive as force, to elevate a theft to a robbery. You may think that silly, but in a dark spot in Waldorf, when confronted by a few teens, you may think differently.

No one is suggesting anyone run scared. It is up to the mall to change the atmosphere there and move the problem teens, who don't provide a single fiscal benefit, out of the mall. They have relied to long on the generosity of the elected head law enforcement officers of this county while they rake in millions. That is idiotic and unconscionable. They should step up security, arm there guards, and refuse admittance to teens without parents after the evening hours begin.

In summation, the mall may be statistically safe there is more to "safe" then robbery stats. Safe is a feeling you have when you shop free of intimidation by thugs and rude teenagers. That atmosphere does not exist in our mall outside of an errant Monday morning.

I hear what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree. Crime is alive and well at the mall. And don't get me started on the gang thing.....

Comment by bishop on 03/07/10 at 01:09 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
4. · Either I'm totally oblivious or just plain lucky. Admittedly, I'm not a big shopper and I have the luxury of being able to shop at least once a week in some other city, but I will say that when I have shopped at the mall in Waldorf, I have never felt uneasy or threatened or uncomfortable in the least.

I'm more annoyed that we don't have the same selection of merchandise that I can find elsewhere.

Comment by Lee Platt on 03/07/10 at 01:24 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
5. · I suspect there is a perception problem here. Any group of teens, especially if they are dressed a certain way, are classified as "thugs and screaming teenagers," regardless of how they are behaving. Six fourteen year old girls giggling in the McDonald's line and semi-blocking the aisle? Screaming teenagers! Four young men leaning against a column near the entrance, doing absolutely nothing, but with their pants below their asses and ball caps all askew? Thugs!

I remember "cruising" the mall as a teenager myself, along with six or seven of my closest ne'er-do-well friends. This was in the rollicking urban center known as LaVale, MD. We were, I suppose, classified as thugs. We had long hair and wore Judas Priest and Iron Maiden T-shirts. Our jeans were torn in all the appropriate places. We engaged in the complex and very important handshake rituals of the time whenever we greeted one another. And we blocked the travel lanes from time to time, and we moped around outside the entrances from time to time, and we were eyed suspiciously by the adults, who were all too certain that each of us was plotting some heinous crime to be performed later in the parking lot. Except we weren't. And we never did. We were just teens hanging out and being a little too loud and a little to "in the way" for the grown ups.

And that is exactly what more than 99% of the screaming teenagers and thugs at our own mall are. Just kids hanging out and being a little too loud and a little too in the way for some people's convenience.

For the record, I've shopped at the mall hundreds upon hundreds of times. I've sat for hours, having a coffee or a beer or a blizzard, while any combination of my four kids shopped to their hearts' content. Not once have I ever felt unsafe or threatened. What I find interesting is that the majority of the people who talk about how bad the mall has gotten, or how unsafe it is, almost always follow it up with the fact they don't go there anymore or haven't been there in years.

Comment by mbillard on 03/07/10 at 09:40 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
6. · I'm more annoyed that we don't have the same selection of merchandise that I can find elsewhere.

I hear this complaint over and over about the CC Mall. Add this to the other perceptions regarding crime and wild teens, and it would point out that those in charge of the Mall are doing nothing to upgrade it.

One reason could be that Simon is more interested in scooping up General Growth (a Mall owner/developer that went BK) for $10 billion. So, if they aren't putting their money and effort into malls they already own, our little CC Mall isn't going to get squat.

Comment by seahorse on 03/07/10 at 09:47 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
7. · If you want to shop at a REALLY GREAT MALL go to Tyson's!!!

Little or NO CRIME, great stores and a wonderful shopping experience - even if you don't shop!!

Comment by cheryl on 03/07/10 at 01:14 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
8. · MBILLARD,

Well said. I think many people have the perception that any kid hanging around is up to no good. Most kids are well mannered and respectful. But they are kids. They are going to gather with their friends and get a little loud, or block the walk ways from time to time.

Coyote,

I understand what you are saying, and what I was trying to point out is that many of the malls in our region that have good reputations and have been used as examples of great places to shop on this blog have had very serious crime issues to include kidnapping and murder. To date (knock on wood) we have been lucky her in CC. I have shopped at the mall hundreds of times. And yes, I get annoyed by the kids from time to time. But then I try to remember an important fact. They are kids. And finally, if those kids are not spending money at the mall then I am sure the mall management would have no problem sending them on their way. We can not assume they are not spending money and helping ouor local economy.

Comment by Bill Jones on 03/07/10 at 02:29 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
9. ·
In summation, the mall may be statistically safe there is more to "safe" then robbery stats. Safe is a feeling you have when you shop free of intimidation by thugs and rude teenagers. That atmosphere does not exist in our mall outside of an errant Monday morning.

I hear what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree. Crime is alive and well at the mall. And don't get me started on the gang thing.....

I go to the mall all the time- and what I find funny is on a Friday or Saturday night we are usually the only "ADuLTS' in sight. I find it funny that folks are so intimidated (funny as in sad).

The kids are out- they were 'thug' clothes' lets tremble in fright and look scared - the kids find that amusing and then will act even more threatening.

As Billard says:just go sit and look. Look past the hair styles, the clothes, the loud voices...and you see dads with their babies taking care of them,girlfriends flirting with boys and squealing.. normal life happening but packaged differently than what you are used to when you were young.

My neices husband looks like a complete and total thug- hair, pants around his butt (I dont know how they stay up- I suspect glue) TATOOS, the slouch.....but a more traditional husband than you could imagine (takes care of his soon to be 3 children tenderly, cares for his wife and her needs- goes to school at night after work and after they all have had dinner). yet by looking you would never see the guy he is.

The mall will stay the same unless the citizens use it (and that means ALL the citizens) if you go elsewhere- your money is not staying in this County to help, you are not improving the Store quality (they stock what they can sell- and if you abandon it to teen shoppers- what kinda of stores do you expect?) By going elsewhere you are surely consigning it to become a dumping ground.

Why not take it back? why abandon it to kids? It is a short sighted decision that affects our whole Community and its selling points- and ultimately your home prices.

formerly known on the ‘Duck’ as spirit of the elder & BJGoodwin

Comment by Barbara on 03/07/10 at 03:13 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
10. · What's funny about teens is when they're walking 6 abreast blocking the lane, and you're heading toward them, if you smile, hold your line, say excuse me and keep right on getting up, the "waters will part" and they will smile back at you.

you are not improving the Store quality (they stock what they can sell- and if you abandon it to teen shoppers- what kinda of stores do you expect?)

Wouldn't you think those in charge know this Mall isn't catering to many county residents? Or wait, maybe most like what's offered and maybe usun's who complain that we can't find jack are on the outsiders. I can't improve store quality if they don't sell what I want to buy. This isn't a charity where I'd be willing to buy something I have no use for just to support a good cause. If there are many who feel that the Mall stores don't stock what they want to buy, then I'd say Mall management and the stores are out of touch or they just don't care.

Comment by seahorse on 03/07/10 at 04:18 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
11. · "If you want to shop at a REALLY GREAT MALL go to Tyson's!!!"

First of all, I do everything I can to support the local economy. That means the people who work retail in the county who would lose their jobs if every dollar we spent was spent in Tyson's or elsewhere.

I shop outside the county but as much as I can, I try to stay in the state for the same reason.

Utopia would be locally owned businesses that carry everything I need. Sadly, that's not the case, but I will choose a local business and pay a higher price over an out of County/State business if they have what I want/need.

Comment by Lee Platt on 03/07/10 at 06:09 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
12. · I few chain department stores as "anchors"...the rest Jewelry stores......who is buyin all this jewelry?? That's what I want to know.....

Comment by MarylandRes on 03/07/10 at 06:24 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
13. · Okay, so to be clear. No one has a problem with the cursing, rude, and disrespectful teenaged crowd at the mall? They're all misunderstood? Be serious. By the Sheriff's own admission, these are your criminals and your victims. I frequent the mall way more than I would like. These are not poor misunderstood children who I am stereotyping based on clothing. These are cursing degenerates who I have to shield my small child from. They stand atop the rails yelling sexual vibrato at those below or stand 6 abreast refusing to move. I see the glass half full crowd has decided to grant all the thugs a pass, but don't drink the Kool-Aide. In addition to adult criminals, these kids affect the quality of everyone shopping at the mall. Don't lower your standards of social tolerance. Street gang members openly displaying colors are walking tall each weekend at that mall! Other "kids" come there just to cause trouble, be loud, or show how tough they can look. This isn't the movie theatre cruising lane folks. Just because you did it back in the day does not mean it is acceptable today. Did you yell the F word from your mouth during every sentence in the presence of small children? Did you discuss how much you wanted to have a sexual relationship with some random female in graphic language in front of movie-goers and small children? NO you didn't because I was there. Social tolerance for this type of behavior is at an all time high. It is ridiculous and the mall needs to step in. It used to be a place of social functions and great stores. Now, it's 7 shoe stores and 4 random, fly by night stores strong with good businesses pulling out. It is time we declare this type of behavior unacceptable and demand a better quality environment from our main commerce center. I find it sad on one is outraged that Simon Properties invested exactly zero dollars of their 10 million dollar renovation in security for you, their customer. They don't care as long as the bucks keep rolling in.

For those of you that have had "NO PROBLEMS" at the mall, congrats. You are in the minority. Take a poll of the people you know. I will personally guarantee that 80% or more who shop at the mall will declare it a bad experience. Something needs to be done and the Sheriff's Office is only a small part of the equation.

Comment by bishop on 03/09/10 at 07:28 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
14. ·
For those of you that have had "NO PROBLEMS" at the mall, congrats

I have said we need to take back the mall.

I also am not saying there are no problems but I think they are mostly exaggerated by perceptions- when the people you want to see, do not frequent the mall because of a few- this is what we get.

We DO NED TO TAKE BACK CONTROL

formerly known on the ‘Duck’ as spirit of the elder & BJGoodwin

Comment by Barbara on 03/09/10 at 07:44 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
15. · Perceptions are accurate depending on when you are able to shop. If your schedule requires you head to the mall on a Friday or Saturday evening, then nothing here is exaggerated. If you look at the violent crimes (even though the mall isn't violent anymore) that occur at the mall, they are almost always on Friday/Saturday evening. This is when the teens and young adults come out en mass, with no purpose other than to loiter, and cause serious disruptions at the mall. Since so many of us work Monday to Friday jobs, this is what we see EVERY time we shop. Why do you think the police are ONLY working there full time on Friday and Saturday evenings?

It sickens me it is allowed to happen. The mall knows these teens contribute VERY little fiscally but considerably criminally, but takes no action to stop it. Why? PR. Bad press, even in the form of taking action to make it a safer place, is still bad press.

You are right - we need to take back control and that starts by accurately stating the problem. My earlier declaration of "thugs" at the mall wasn't a blanket statement. It wasn't based on race, dress, age or anything other than actions! The thugs are there in droves despite other comments about how I've misidentified them based on my own bias. A Friday/Saturday rule banning unaccompanied minors in the mall would fix this problem within 30 days. Okay, maybe I'm being ambitious with that time table, but you get the point. Don't let people scream and yell curse words at each other. Don't let them block the walk ways and carry-on without respect for anyone around them. Things will change quickly. The mall WILL need the Sheriff's Office in big numbers for a few weeks until the rule sticks - AND they should pay for it, not us, the citizen. Millions of dollars to put in new columns and floors? Why not spend a 10th to vastly improve the quality of the mall?

In closing, I understand a lot of this discussion depends upon perceptions versus reality. If everyone thinks the mall is like the average Friday/Saturday night during the week, then what does it matter if their right? They are going to tell a friend, and so on, and look what happened with one little email from ONE mother. Imagine that email chain if hundreds were declaring our mall unsafe. Simon needs to rein it in now!

Comment by bishop on 03/09/10 at 07:59 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
16. · just curious. how many people posting here have teenagers who may frequent that mall?

just asking.

Comment by Lee Platt on 03/09/10 at 08:05 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
17. · I did and do. I noted past tense for when she was under 18 and, she is now, over 18. The mall opened the year she was born. The rule we set for her as a teen was she could go to the mall with friends during the day and early evening. Outside those times, it had to be with me and/or her dad or with a friend's parents. Now that she is over 18, she, herself, has chosen to go to the mall by day and elsewhere for recreation/socializing in the evenings - usually to a friend's home.

formerly known on the ‘Duck as CCCitizen and, unless otherwise stated, any opinions expressed are those of my own.

Comment by Pauleen Brewer on 03/09/10 at 08:15 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
18. · another question, and take it in the spirit it is intended.

where else can young people congregate on friday and saturday nights?

Comment by Lee Platt on 03/09/10 at 08:19 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
19. · The bowling alley, Capital Clubhouse, the movies, My Brother's Place, Budd's Creek are the first ones I think of off the top of my head. After those, the friend's house who has the coolest video games, pool table, air hockey or, in the summer, the best swimming pool. My daughter also dines out a lot with friends. Since starting at CSM, she enjoys hanging out in the student lounge and playing pool there.

formerly known on the ‘Duck as CCCitizen and, unless otherwise stated, any opinions expressed are those of my own.

Comment by Pauleen Brewer on 03/09/10 at 08:29 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
20. · @ #7 "no crime" at Tysons?

Well, if you don't count being able to buy marijuana and Ecstasy in the food court as crime, then...OK.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/crime/Officer-buys-ecstasy-at-Tysons-Corner-Center-to-bust-drug-ring-86248932.html

Comment by TWD on 03/10/10 at 06:57 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
21. · #20 - thanks for this info, I did not know about this.

Suffice it to say that when I go there, it's on a weekday and I have yet to see anything like this.

I feel very safe at Tyson's Corner Center and at Tyson's Galleria, and will continue to go there...

Comment by cheryl on 03/10/10 at 08:56 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
22. · Pauleen -

My Brothers Place, the movies, and the AMF Lanes continue to be a pretty big problem. The gangs are flocking to MBP every weekend and fights ensue requiring hords of police. Not to mention the gunfire and other incidents in the parking lot. The movie theater isn't terrible, but the robberies have been on the rise over there since they kicked out the police security in favor of private "special police". Your other choices are on the mark! Even AMF is slowly getting better due to their proactive stance against thugs and problem people. They have cops there on the weekend and enforce their own rules to the letter. The result is a quickly improving venue for young people. Great suggestions!

I have heard a few comments about "where the young people should go" during this conversation. I don't know - and it's not really our job to provide them with a fun time. That's what family and parenting is all about. I grew up in Charles County with no mall and no major commerce center yet somehow had a great time. My family was active in my life and my friends opened their doors to me (and my family to them). People mistake the mall as their personal babysitter so they can get time alone and that is wrong. It's wrong of any place in this county. Young people should not be out late and walking the streets at all hours of the night. Their families should help guide them to safe activities and talk to them about what's appropriate. Unfortunetely, that doesn't always happen and the lack of involvement by families greatly attributes to the problems at the mall.

Comment by bishop on 03/10/10 at 04:27 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
23. · I haven't kept up with MBP or AMF in the last couple of years because they aren't places my daughter goes to, anymore. However, when she did, I was all over them. She goes to the movies or bowling in Calvert county, now.

I agree with you, bishop, somewhat - I grew up in Charles County, as well. There was no mall, ice skating, etc. However, I always seemed to find things to do with my time that didn't involve committing any crime or intimidating adults. I was taught to respect adults and to watch my mouth around children.

formerly known on the ‘Duck as CCCitizen and, unless otherwise stated, any opinions expressed are those of my own.

Comment by Pauleen Brewer on 03/10/10 at 04:53 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
24. · "The mall will stay the same unless the citizens use it (and that means ALL the citizens) if you go elsewhere- your money is not staying in this County to help, you are not improving the Store quality (they stock what they can sell-"

What came 1st, the chicken or the egg? If the Mall sells junk and people want something better, then I guess that they will just have to shop elsewhere. Maybe if they sold better 'stuff', these people would shop there.

Comment by Iamangttia on 03/10/10 at 07:22 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
25. · I differ in that opinion- surely you can patronize the mall and do small shopping? Get some exercise?
Make the atmosphere better which pulls up the perceptions.

Just as it has been proven that fixing broken windows and planting some flowers in a downtrodden neighborhood will soon have others improving it.

formerly known on the ‘Duck’ as spirit of the elder & BJGoodwin

Comment by Barbara on 03/10/10 at 09:34 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]

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