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Dow crosses 13,000 for first time since 2008

Daily Record,

The Dow Jones industrial average crossed 13,000 on Tuesday for the first time since May 2008, when the Lehman Brothers investment bank was solvent, unemployment a healthy 5.4 percent and the worst of the Great Recession months ahead.

The milestone came about two hours into the trading day. The stock market got the final push from strong corporate earnings reports and a Greek bailout deal intended to prevent the next financial crisis.

The average was above 13,000 for about 30 seconds before dropping back. It reclaimed the mark just after noon.

Posted by: Sammy on 02/21/12 at 02:56 PM

Page 1 of 1 pages

1. · so the economy is NOT recovering?

Sounds like good news to me.

formerly known on the ‘Duck’ as spirit of the elder & BJGoodwin

Comment by Barbara on 02/22/12 at 07:38 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
2. ·
so the economy is NOT recovering?

Depends on who you listen to! Stay away from the commentary of those pushing political agendas and one should see that overall things in this country are slowly getting better.

News on housing was better than expected this morning. Regional Fed surveys are showing moderate strength. Weekly jobless claims and the most recent Job Opening and Labor Turnover Survey are indicating an expanding job market. Eurobor and LIBOR rolled over in early January and show lessening stress in the global banking system.

Dow is a fairly useless index. Europe is still a problem. Oil prices are becoming a problem, again.

Depends on who you listen to! Stay away from the commentary of those pushing political agendas and one should see that overall things in this country are slowly getting better.

News on housing was better than expected this morning. Regional Fed surveys are showing moderate strength. Weekly jobless claims and the most recent Job Opening and Labor Turnover Survey are indicating an expanding job market. Eurobor and LIBOR rolled over in early January and show lessening stress in the global banking system.

Dow is a fairly useless index. Europe is still a problem. Oil prices are becoming a problem, again.

Comment by shadowdiver on 02/22/12 at 10:39 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
3. · interesting...how did I manage to do that???

Comment by shadowdiver on 02/22/12 at 10:57 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
4. · The purpose of the Dow is psychological as I posted somewhere yesterday. It shows the top companies are making great profits and so shareholders should get a good return.

Optimism moves the economy. look at the difference between Carter and Reagen. Carter was hunker down - Reagen came in and everything was glam- the economy soon followed.

formerly known on the ‘Duck’ as spirit of the elder & BJGoodwin

Comment by Barbara on 02/22/12 at 03:09 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
5. · All news is political these days, all news is slanted.
Oil coming down? Since Obummer came into office it has doubled.

Comment by Diane Edge, (AKA gizmo123) on 02/23/12 at 11:14 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
6. · "Since Obummer came into office it has doubled"

I seem to remember $4+ gas when Bush was in office. Am I mistaken?

Comment by Iamangttia on 02/23/12 at 12:26 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
7. · "Under George W. Bush, the price of gasoline increased from $1.60 per gallon when he took office in January 2001 to $4.40 per gallon in July 2008, a jump of 275 percent."

I know that Obama must have been involved in this price increase somehow--Bush was too dumb to do it alone.

Comment by Iamangttia on 02/23/12 at 12:32 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
8. · Well - if you want to get into oil and gas: here it is.

Europe has paid the true price of these products for decades- hence you go there and you paid double or triple/quadruple to fill your tank as here in America- why do ou think walking and bikes are big: trains, buses, metros are invested in and for the independent tiny cars and vespas the rule?

Gas prices.

Now boo-hoo we are finally having to pay a more true price, still not up to the true.

formerly known on the ‘Duck’ as spirit of the elder & BJGoodwin

Comment by Barbara on 02/23/12 at 12:40 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
9. · When Obummer was elected it was $1.87 a gal

As far as TRUE PRICE in Europe, for once and for all, the pilgrims left and landed in America... We are America. Not Europe.
AMERICA is not Europe.

So is Obummer an American or a European?

Comment by Diane Edge, (AKA gizmo123) on 02/23/12 at 01:28 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
10. ·
Europe has paid the true price of these products for decades

This is absolutely false and is the same gunk that Xcitor used to post. Where do people get this foolishness?

Gas prices are higher in Europe because of the taxes imposed on the product.

And...BTW the insinuation that Reagan rode in on a white horse and immediately turned around a sick country ignores the severe recession than began 5 months after he entered office and lasted for 10 months with unemployment rising to 10.8% during that time.

Comment by shadowdiver on 02/23/12 at 01:41 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
11. · Data on the recession for the above post is available on the NBER and BLS websites.

Comment by shadowdiver on 02/23/12 at 01:42 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
12. · Before the recession hit I had arguments for alomst a year with someone whose family members were Govt experts on the economy.

Turns out my reading was correct and except for our home prices we kept our "accumulated wealth" however pitiful it may be- in fact if we hadn't had to withdraw some we would have been ahead.

So I'll keep to my analysis over these "experts"

I'm sure you know best on Europe- in the 70's it wasn't so- I guess I'm stuck in the 70"s. But if we had minded what we knew in the 70's we wouldn't be in the pickle we are for energy.

Anyway- usually I would research for the correct information (mine?yours? )But I am very busy right now with other stuff

formerly known on the ‘Duck’ as spirit of the elder & BJGoodwin

Comment by Barbara on 02/23/12 at 02:36 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
13. · $4 Billion in subsidies per year to oil companies each year and are asking for more.

That couldnt be making our gas cheaper than in Europe, could it?

formerly known on the ‘Duck’ as spirit of the elder & BJGoodwin

Comment by Barbara on 02/23/12 at 02:43 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
14. · With all due respect Barbara, your take on gas prices is absolutely incorrect. The notion that our gas prices are low due to oil subsidies is completely wrong...and the notion that Europe's gas prices are high due to their paying the "true cost" is completely wrong.

If you wish, please search my previous posts on the subject with that idiot Xcitor. I've provided the data on here before showing the impact of taxes on gas prices in Europe and I worked thru the math to show the impact of oil subsidies on the price per gallon of gas.

It really isn't that difficult to do a Google search on "european taxes on gasoline"...it takes about .21 seconds to come up with the information.

Here is a French report from 2008:

http://ifri.org/files/Energie/Davoustang.pdf

Please see the chart on page 9 or the graph on page 7. From the graph it is plain to see that the raw price of gas (blue portion of the bars) is about the same.

Or you can go to any of the other sites to verify.

With regards to the subsidy...my recollection is that $4 billion adds up to an impact of about 3 cents per gallon. So no...it has no impact on the price.

Comment by shadowdiver on 02/24/12 at 08:10 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
15. · Here is a chart from the US Dept of Transportation:

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/mmfr/nov10/mftrates.cfm

According to DOT, federal gas tax in US is 39 cents per gallon.

By comparison, the European countries noted on the chart have a national gas tax ranging from $3.95 to $4.79 per gallon.

Europeans pay more in taxes more per gallon than we spend for an actual gallon of gas.

Comment by shadowdiver on 02/24/12 at 10:42 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
16. · #15 - EXCELLENT INFO!! A comparison in cost per gallon with Europe just isn't realistic.

In Europe, less driving is done because most people live in towns & cities whereas in the U.S. people are more "spread out".

In Europe, most people do not own their own homes, they rent, whereas in the U.S. most people own their homes --mostly in the suburbs.

Most countries in Europe have very high taxes because their governments are socialist and those governments have to get money anyway it can - including high energy taxes.

Unless people in the U.S. relocate from the suburbs/exurbs to towns/cities, I think a rise in gasoline prices will be devastating to the economy. It's not just the price of gas, but food and everything that's transported by truck will be affected.

Comment by cheryl on 02/24/12 at 10:56 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
17. · A simple solution is a percentage of the oil needs to be divereted back to USA before being sold to China with & paid for with money we have to borrow to pay China.

Comment by Diane Edge, (AKA gizmo123) on 02/24/12 at 12:18 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
18. ·
Most countries in Europe have very high taxes because their governments are socialist and those governments have to get money anyway it can - including high energy taxes.

The majority of the governments in Europe are parliamentary republics, with the second most being constitutional monarchies (as in the UK). I don't know exactly what you mean by them being "socialist."

Comment by mbillard on 02/24/12 at 01:23 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
19. ·
Most countries in Europe have very high taxes because their governments are socialist and those governments have to get money anyway it can - including high energy taxes.

I haven't read on this topic much...but what little I have read agrees that the funding the social safety net is one component of why gas taxes are so high elsewhere in the world.

The other reason I have seen (and again this is not meant to be all inclusive)...is that the govts push conservation of resources.

I wish I knew where this "true cost" of gas in Europe comes from...no one ever sources that opinion...

Comment by shadowdiver on 02/24/12 at 01:46 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
20. · There are several variations to the term "socialist" and "socialism" but I can say that I don't think there is another country in the world that has the freedoms that the U.S. has. The U.S. is not perfect and never will be but I believe it's the best in the world.

I don't think the U.S. should emulate Europe, but it appears we're becoming more and more like Europe. Again, most people in Europe do not own property the way we do in the U.S. My husband has traveled throughout the world, and has said many times over he wouldn't trade the U.S. for any other nation. He said they're nice places to visit but he wouldn't live in any of them.

I agree with #17 on oil. The oil companies either agree to set aside a percentage of their oil for the U.S. before export, OR pay a large export "tax". This could help alot with not just the price but with the supply and might help prevent what we saw in the 1970's.

I hope this answers your question. If not, I really don't have too much more to say about it. This is my opinion....

Comment by cheryl on 02/24/12 at 01:49 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
21. · cheryl, i think you're incorrect. i don't have time to find specific credible sources other than the bbc for the uk, but it appears that most europeans do own homes and that percentage is steadily increasing.

i know that in some places, the land is lease-hold; but that doesn't affect ownership of the home. in fact, in this country, we still have leasehold land (hawaii, for one) as well as fee simple.

you can search "uk home ownership" and look at the bbc news site for a chart.

Comment by Lee Platt on 02/24/12 at 02:59 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
22. · Thanks for the info Lee.

All I can say, is that the U.S. has the advantage when it comes to home ownership. I remember some years ago when my husband was in one of the European countries, (it slips my mind now which one it was) he was talking to some of the locals and they wanted to know where he lived etc. They were astonished when he told them about our home & land. They thought he was rich because only rich people in their country could afford what we have (which is very modest btw).

This caused me to realize how truly blessed we are in the U.S.!!

Comment by cheryl on 02/24/12 at 03:24 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
23. · Ronald Reagan once said, " Double, no triple, our troubles and we'd still be better off than any other people on earth."

Comment by Maria on 02/24/12 at 04:24 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
24. · "The majority of the governments in Europe are parliamentary republics, with the second most being constitutional monarchies (as in the UK). I don't know exactly what you mean by them being "socialist.""

What she means is that if a Country has a National Health Plan then they are Socialist. Other than that, it makes no difference to her what their form of government is.

Comment by Iamangttia on 02/24/12 at 04:45 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
25. · #24 - keep digging!!

Comment by cheryl on 02/24/12 at 04:49 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
26. · "i know that in some places, the land is lease-hold; but that doesn't affect ownership of the home. in fact, in this country, we still have leasehold land (hawaii, for one) as well as fee simple."

You don't even have to go to Hawaii, my mother has owned land in Baltimore for decades that houses are built on. Others own the house and pay my mother rent for the property it sits on. This situation is quite prevalent in Baltimore.

Comment by Iamangttia on 02/24/12 at 04:51 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
27. · Interesting. And. Cheryl, I agree with the sentiment.

Comment by Lee Platt on 02/24/12 at 05:05 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
28. · Ive seen it in Anne Arundal too- modest nice neighborhoods- you own the home and a share of the Community. When you move you sell your share and home. Makes it very affordable and its an incentive for the community to self police to keep up its values.

formerly known on the ‘Duck’ as spirit of the elder & BJGoodwin

Comment by Barbara on 02/24/12 at 06:29 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]

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