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Public Hearing: Proposed Amendments to the Charles County Water and Sewer Plan

The Charles County Commissioners will conduct a Public Hearing on Wednesday, April 16, 2008, at 2:30 p.m., in the County Commissioners’ Meeting Room of the Charles County Government Building, La Plata, Maryland, to consider proposed amendments to the Charles County Comprehensive Water and Sewer Plan.

The Water and Sewer Plan is a ten-year plan which describes the present and future provisions of public water and sewer service.
This public hearing will provide the public the opportunity to present testimony on the amendments received by February 15, 2008, the amendment cycle deadline. These proposed amendments include one new map application in the Bensville area, three deferred map applications from previous amendment cycles, and a new text amendment to allow shared septic facilities for properties located outside the Development District.

Related threads:

COMMISSIONERS TASK FORCE…

Briefing: Shared Sewage Disposal Facilities Proposal

Posted by: Sammy on 03/29/08 at 06:10 AM

Page 1 of 1 pages

1. · a new text amendment to allow shared septic facilities for properties located outside the Development District.

Having a shared septic system might be a great way for those in the Nanjemoy area with no indoor plumbing, due to land not being able to pass a perc test, to be able to have a real bathroom, but....I can also see developers jumping on this like flies on poop.

Wasn't this ammendment the one sponsored by Mike Sullivan and a minister? And isn't Mike Sullivan a developer? Is he sponsoring this ammendment out of the goodness of his heart using the minister as a front man? Or...is there an ulterior motive aimed at developing unpercable land? Hmmmmmmm??????

Comment by seahorse on 03/29/08 at 09:14 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
2. · I watched the public informational meeting last night - Sullivan admitted he and someone named Cheseldine have several properties to develop that hinge on a shared septic...

formerly known on the ‘Duck as CCCitizen and, unless otherwise stated, any opinions expressed are those of my own.

Comment by Pauleen Brewer on 03/29/08 at 09:20 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
3. · I think you're right seahorse about Sullivan. I think he owns Mt. Victoria, but I'm not certain.

OF COURSE there's an ulterior motive in developing land that won't perc!

I believe that in the next decade or so, most of the county will be hooked up to "public" water/sewer - the expense will be shared by the County and the developers. This will allow for dense development, i.e. townhouses, apartments, condos, etc. and the Nanjemoy waterfront has the developers just licking their chops!!

Just never ceases to amaze me how the developers and their ilk are able to get THEIR way relatively easy, yet the ordinary citizens have to fight like hell just to be heard!!

Comment by cheryl on 03/29/08 at 09:29 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
4. · Someone emailed me on a correction to my comment above:

Cheseldine is Margaret Cheseldine with the County -- She's the head of Community Services. I think Mike Sullivan's been meeting with her about Nanjemoy. I believe she was at the work session that included the Community Task Force and Sullivan.

However, Sullivan did admit that he owned properties for which development hinges on a shared septic approval...

formerly known on the ‘Duck as CCCitizen and, unless otherwise stated, any opinions expressed are those of my own.

Comment by Pauleen Brewer on 03/29/08 at 11:44 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
5. ·
Wasn't this ammendment the one sponsored by Mike Sullivan and a minister? And isn't Mike Sullivan a developer? Is he sponsoring this ammendment out of the goodness of his heart using the minister as a front man? Or...is there an ulterior motive aimed at developing unpercable land? Hmmmmmmm??????

Sullivan has assured many community groups in the County that he never has developed where he lives (CHarles) AND will not. But it seems just by who he would know, many people could benefit.

He also has money and status, so he is able to hire experts to work on projects to get them approved. Because of who he is, getting favorable notice by those who can affect change is easier.

Many volunteer groups have tried for the entire time the commissioners have been in office to get their time and attention on matters.

They had contacted the county and had the employees tell them the only way to improve situations of living for some, is by the Commissioners approvig an overlay zone just to accomplish those goals.

The commissioners ignored the groups completely, although it was in their power to act- without laws being changed.

In Nanjemoy- one issue for improving properties and people lives were the issue of heir properties- those properties inherited but never lagally transferred- sometimes these transactions had not been done for a hundred years. So establishing legal ownership was difficult.

Mr Sullivan hired staff to work with the head of Community Services, Ms Cheseldine to identify these properties in distress and to try to work out the legal title.

This was after a year or more of struggle by these community groups to get a process going with the County to resolve these issues.

7 of these titles were almost resolved with Ms Chesldine and Mr Sullivan, so improvements can be made. Others are more difficult but are being worked on.

Over 150 properties are unsafe, or unhealthy. Have no plumbing, electricity or stable roofs, walls or foundations. These are the ones many groups have been trying to identify and help.

We all know it is not just an issue of the house but the pschological and social issues of the people living there.

The groups were looking to address all the issues to promote success, not just build a house or improve a house for people and walk away leaving them to still flounder and have the homes fall apart again.

So many are suspicious. Where has Mr Sullivan and his contacts been through the years of work? Why did he suddenly appear with engineering staff, maps, legal amendments prepared ..etc...only when one group went before the housing commisison, who did not seem to know of these issues in the COunty?

How did he already have contact and a relationship with the Commisioners about these issues and with Community Services when these groups could not (not for lack of trying or the County knowing of the struggles of the groups)?

When the groups asked the COunty they were told nothing was being done, comtemplated or worked on.(after all the volunteers did not want to waste their passion, energy and free time for nothing)

SHared septic is allowed and could be approved for just these areas with an overlay zone. That way development does not run rampent.

By changing the law- it makes it easier for development to happen. The Commissioners like the idea, because they can develop AND "SAVE LAND FROM DEVELOPMENT (a key issue) by clustering. AND they can build where they could not before!!!! Another key issue here.

SO some of us are suspicious- some of us are leery, some of us are dubious ablout this whole thing.

The issue is WHY? Why would he be doing this and Why now and out of nowhere?

If you look at many of the issues of the County and its lack of being able to develop, if you stand back and start messing with the puzzle peices, you start to see a master plan here- but we are still short some peices. The problem is, once we get those peices- the damage is done and irreversable.

With this the planned County map made a few years back but undoable because of non perks, because of lack of infrastructure (water and sewer)

SOme of these benefits are shown - Rural villages or towns, now undevelopable- now could be with this change. I beleive 7 to 9 are on the map.

9 Waterfront Villages would now be easier to develop.

SHARED SEPTIC can be a god send to the poor- but a real boon to those with money and power only held back by land that would not cooperate.

SHARED SEPTIC can be a god send for our polluted waters and for getting the Commisisoners off the hook- it cleans up all the polluting septic- such as Port Tobacco and Nanjemoy. We all want that.

But it also allows land now unbuildable to become buildable and contribute to impervious surfaces and runoff. A catch 22.

I also must say- Mr Sullivan even if he does not develop in the COunty and is doing it from the goodness of his heart, is opening a can of worms.

There are as many bad scenerios as good.

The people in the County in need can be helped without this legislation. The Commissioners have that power.

I also want to note that Mr Sullivan athough he has set some of his own land aside for conservation, etc... has been heard to lambast "those" do- gooder environmental people who keep everything from being developed, especially in the western part of the County.

GOOD, BAD... i dont know ...Sometimes people do things they think are for good, because they cannot see beyond what they are concentrating on, especially those that have yes men.

BUT THEn there are those unintended consequences...that never can be fixed.

formerly known on the ‘Duck’ as spirit of the elder & BJGoodwin

Comment by Barbara on 03/29/08 at 07:10 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
6. · This is a high priority issue and as has been pointed out, a problem that has been talked about for a long time with no action. Sullivan's proposal, however, seems to be putting the cart before the horse. The first step should be to assemble the various groups that want to help and have ideas and/or land - I can think of 3 right off the top of my head (church groups and private citizens) who have stepped forward. The Commissioners need to take the lead and match them up with Sullivan and any other successful developers who are looking for a cause to become passionate about and put some money behind. Put the plan together and then the Commissioners and staff can make it happen. Let's face it, it will take more than just shared septics to make a real impact in Nanjemoy. But change can happen if the Leaders take the Lead. Good Lord, it's about time!

Comment by deeraudrey on 03/30/08 at 07:07 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
7. · Sullivan and the Commissioners have pulled the rug out from all those working on these issues.

Thats why I think something more is up.

formerly known on the ‘Duck’ as spirit of the elder & BJGoodwin

Comment by Barbara on 03/30/08 at 11:02 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
8. · Sounds like it is time to check up on campaign contributions again.

Comment by pocat on 03/30/08 at 11:13 PM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
9. · I agree BJG with everything you've said here.

I also think there's MUCH more to this than we'll ever know!!

Again, money talks and....

Comment by cheryl on 03/31/08 at 06:56 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
10. · The people in the County in need can be helped without this legislation. The Commissioners have that power.

Good point, BJGoowin, about why the commissioners don't step up to the plate themselves and initiate a help process for those with non-existent septic systems and problem wells (or no wells at all). They don't need Sullivan to point the way which makes the whole thing look very suspicious, and this problem has been studied to death so it's not like something new has all of a sudden come to light.

Plus, wouldn't you just think any commissioner looking for "attaboys" from the electorate would want to do their own heavy lifting rather than take direction from a developer? Even more reason to question....

It seems this is being pushed through at this time (2008) for a reason like maybe trying to get as much land as possible into some type of development program whether it percs or not. Is there anything changing as of 2009 that would clamp down on building?

Something about this doesn't pass the sniff test!

Comment by seahorse on 03/31/08 at 07:47 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
11. · seahorse - I think you're onto something!!

It's only a matter of time (and money) before the entire county will have "public" water/sewer. I believe the cost would be shared between the County and developers, plus charging those residents currently with septic and private wells a substantial "fee" to connect to the "public" system if they so desire.

Looks as though this may be a very small step in that direction.

Comment by cheryl on 03/31/08 at 07:57 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
12. · Cheryl, that would make sense that it would be much cheaper to build a shared septic system and even a shared well than having to hook up to the WSSC. Plus, shared systems could be foisted off on the homeowners with NO county upkeep or intervention. Now, wouldn't that just be a win-win for both the county and the developer?

I think I see light at the end of the tunnel!

Comment by seahorse on 03/31/08 at 08:06 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
13. · Could be that it's being pushed through for waterfront development and for development in rural villages...

Cheryl, shared sytems are not the same as public sewer. It's my understanding that in shared septic systems each individual house still has a septic tank, but they all go into one drain field. That way it would allow houses to be built on land that will not perc. Of course, the drain fields would be located on land that would perc.

Comment by Sammy on 03/31/08 at 08:10 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
14. · Yep, it looks that way. Also, "shared septic systems" with a "community" well, could allow for townhouses/apartments in these areas without the expense of running pipelines.

But what will they do with the waterfront "villages"? I guess a community well and a community sewage treatment plant?

Believe me, they've got it figured out!!

Comment by cheryl on 03/31/08 at 08:15 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
15. · They do have it figured out. Bet that Commissioner's Task Force spearheaded this with the approval of the commissioners, and they are using Sullivan as a front man since he's not on the Task Force (but I'd bet he's cozy with all the members). Sullivan in turn recruited the Baptist minister to give it legitimancy.

Comment by seahorse on 03/31/08 at 08:28 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
16. · Seems shared septic systems are used a lot in Howard County. I don't think they're used at all in Montgomery County.

Comment by Sammy on 03/31/08 at 08:45 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
17. · Patuxent Woods in Hughesville has a shared septic system. Seems to me the commissioners could do the same for Nanjemoy residents without opening up all of Charles County to more development.

Rumor has it that Mike Sullivan had already talked to the commissioners about shared septics sometime prior to his submitting the amendment request or the commissioner briefing held on Wednesday, March 26.

TechPractices: Grove at Patuxent Woods, Patuxent City, MD

Code/Regulatory

Charles county offered the site to the non-profit housing provider with the understanding that the sewage regulations might be relaxed. The county agreed to allow sewage from four lots to be conveyed to a fifth and from one lot to the adjacent lot where percolation rates were acceptable. Still, the shared wastewater system caused delays, taking almost a year to be approved.

Comment by Sammy on 03/31/08 at 09:14 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
18. · Wasn't Matthews a junior partner in the Matthews development firm for many years before Mr. Matthews strangely shot himself to death? If so, that firm was a huge developer and one of the first in Charles County.

Comment by Iamangttia on 03/31/08 at 09:45 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
19. · Check this out: CLUA Policies

On Page 2:

Shared Septic Facilities in Agricultural Areas: CLUA opposes the building of shared septic facilities (community sewerage systems at the subdivision level) for housing developments in the Northern Agricultural-Residential (NAR) and Southern Agricultural-Residential (SAR) zones. Shared septic facilities allow housing to be built on land that would otherwise not support it; thus, their use would tend to increase residential development in the agricultural areas of the county, contrary to state policy. A letter from the Maryland Department of Planning to the County Commissioners, dated 1/31/06, states: “Shared facilities may be a fine way to encourage creative and flexible designs in areas planned for residential development. However, shared facilities have no place in areas where preservation of farms and farming is the objective. Like bonus density, shared facilities simply increase residential presence and reduce the viability of farmland for farming: outcomes that are inconsistent with preservation objectives.”

Comment by Sammy on 03/31/08 at 10:31 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]
20. · WOW SAMMY!!

This is excellent - how do you find these things?

This "should" stop this proposal dead in its tracks, but when there's lotsa $$$ involved and a developer who has influence, all bets are off!!

Comment by cheryl on 03/31/08 at 10:42 AM | [Back to Top] | [Back to Main]

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